- YA #101
- June 19th, 2013
Epic Salvation asks:
Seriously if God exist why does he not show himself so we all don't argue and debate over it?My initial response:
Seriously, God doesn't want robots who have no choice but to obey Him, He wants children who love him. Love has to be voluntary and by free choice. This is why God asks us to accept Him on faith alone.
Remember when you were little and your dad or mom taught you to swim? When they beckoned you to jump in the water, you did not demand that they prove to you that they would save you, you just accepted it because you trusted them. This is the kind of relationship that God wants to have with us.
At this point someone named "Mojo" decided to interject.
sparc77, yes, but you could clearly see your parents standing there watching you. And your parents have protected you in the past. That's called statistical faith. We assume our parents have our best interests in mind based on our own past experiences.
On the other hand, none of the gods have ever shown themselves. To have 'faith' in any of them is blind and ignorant. So, what we get is a person simply telling me gods exist. Why am I supposed to believe that person on face value? Because of a book? Be serious.
God has revealed Himself physically many times in the past in both the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible which has accumulated an enormous amount of credibility in accurately recording historical accounts. Every historical account listed in the Bible which can be verified through other surviving records has been shown to be true in either a literal or metaphorical sense. Prophesies which were meticulously recorded have come true just as they were predicted (with the exception of those end-time prophesies whose time has not yet come). This establishes ample grounds for "statistical faith". So by your criteria, we have a recorded historical account of God's appearance as dictated by a book with an unprecedented record of accuracy.
Yes, I am serious. The truth has been revealed to you. If you choose to ignore and not believe, that is your affair and you can answer for your own decisions.
Again Mojo stated
sparc77, yeah, none of the gods have physically been within my eyes' range, nor have they given me a reason to put my faith in them. Even the Christian god. Again, characters from a book will not save anyone from drowning. That's just silly.
Mojo, you never met the author of an instructional book on how to swim, but the characters of that book can save your life...if you're willing to listen.
If you pause and think, just how many people have "never appeared before your eyes" and yet have made an impact on your life nonetheless. Your position--that unless you can see something, then it has no effect on you--is what is "just plain silly".
sparc77, the person who wrote that swimming instructional guide exists somewhere on this planet. I'm sure you could even find out where they live if you look hard enough online. That's where statistical faith comes in. I assume the swimming guide will be correct if it is written by a so-called 'expert' who is flesh and blood and lives on earth. I assume the people who wrote all those bible stories also lived on earth. However, I don't believe in supernatural beings.
On the other hand, if (IF) there is a being that somehow invented all of this (earth, the universe, etc.) I doubt it's anthropomorphic, it's probably indifferent to its 'creation', I doubt it writes books, and I certainly don't have faith in it. Why? Because it hasn't made any effort in revealing itself wholly, which brings us back to the premise of the main question.
Mojo, your assumption that there is a single person who wrote the instructional book is itself a bad assumption. In most cases of textbooks, it is usually the efforts of many persons and is based on their experiences. A single individual may be responsible for the compilation of the information, and the result of that effort is the tangible book you hold in your hand. That is no different than the Bible. It was written by people who are flesh and blood and were inspired to do the writing. It was written by more than 40 individulas spanning over a thousand years. The final version was compiled of the existing texts and results in the manuscript we have today.
Historically the Bible has been shown to be accurate in its accounts of verifyable events. It is supported by non-biblical writings of the same time periods wherever they exist albeit some descriptive deviations and metaphorical devices may be involved.
This gets back to the establishment of credibility. Statistically (since you place so much emphasis on the matter) the odds are against such agreement between the contributions of individuals and at the same time being so historically and prophetically accurate. This in itself increases the credibility of the Bible.
Summarily, (and since this gets back to the original question) the Bible delivers an enormous amount of evidence supporting its claims but falls short of providing direct proof. The reason for which, I addressed in my opening response.
Ultimately it is your choice whether or not to have faith. You, apparently have chosen not to, and you get to reape the benefits and consequences of your choice.
But consider this: what things can you not prove that you actually believe in? Are there any? If something you can not prove today was to be proven tomorrow, would that mean it did not exist yesterday?
Mojo elected not to respond any further. I apparently won the debate as my answer was selected as best.